More Atheist-Theist Debate


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Yesterday I posted a video (Jeffrey Dahmer Interview: Segment 1) someone had sent me along with my response where I wandered off on a tangent about the attitudes I had back when I used to be a heavy believer in God and spirits. Here’s his response:

Sounds a little like theistic determinism as well (all ends well, because God’s in control and everything happens for a reason – ultimately a good reason). That stuff is messed up. 

I’m a freewill theist (not a Classical theist or Calvinist). And I tend to lean toward Open Theism or an open view of the future. I’m probably a year or two from working it all out and probably affirming it as part of my beliefs about reality.
It appears (from what the father was saying) they weren’t a “Christian family” (more like irreligious), at least when Dahmer was growing up. But that article’s pretty interesting, and that church obviously had affects on the family/upbringing.

And I replied with this:

That’s interesting you say, “That stuff is messed up” but that kind of ‘determinism’ is a very common way that Christians see it, and it seems to me that the more devoted a Christian is, the more likely they are to see it that way. I always hear that people should ‘just have faith’ and trust in God and ‘God works in mysterious ways’. I simply took those concepts to their logical conclusion and came to what you called ‘determinism’.

As for Jeffrey Dahmer, yes his family was not quite as religious as say, Ted Bundy’s, (his abusive father was the Deacon of their church until about age 5), but Dahmer still attended church regularly until age 5, which is when most of our world views form their foundations, and most people I know (some of whom still think I’m crazy for claiming God doesn’t exist) would never take their kids to church. And Dahmer was quite adamant at the end of the video that you can’t really care about right and wrong if you don’t have a God to hold you accountable. I have met many religious individuals, but I have never actually met, in person (that I know of), someone who was so hard-core with their belief in God that they actually felt you couldn’t be good without Him. I’ve seen this theory a number of times on the internet, of course. But it’s clearly statistically untrue. Moral values are one of the things that motivates me to be an Atheist, because when you place all your moral willpower on an invisible Guy In The Sky, the moment you have a little doubt in His existence, your whole moral structure collapses, and you fail to recognize the myriad of biological, emotional, spiritual and logical reasons to be a good person.

My next post will continue this discussion tomorrow: Even More Atheist-Theist Debate



Here are a few more blog posts about my theory that religion promotes crime:

New study raises questions about religion as deterrent against criminal behaviour
Religion vs Methamphetamines
Masturbation, Homosexuality, and Christian Impostors
Atheists Don't Believe in Love?
Religious Criminals are Liars?
Response to 22 Ways
Even More Atheist-Theist Debate
Jeffrey Dahmer Interview Segment
Crime is not Logical
About My Page, 22 Ways

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